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Post by Charlie Allison on Oct 31, 2017 11:49:21 GMT
I've reworked 'Portia' a bit and I'm experimenting with an interlude showing the aftereffects of the inspector's death. I'll post more of my concerns later--hope this doesn't suck too bad. Charlie Two Years and Interlud.pdf (147.26 KB) |
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Julia
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Post by Julia on Nov 2, 2017 19:45:09 GMT
I'm working on this but probably won't be finished till the weekend!
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Post by justin1023 on Nov 2, 2017 20:13:28 GMT
I've reworked 'Portia' a bit and I'm experimenting with an interlude showing the aftereffects of the inspector's death. I'll post more of my concerns later--hope this doesn't suck too bad. Charlie Charlie, This may be the six-hundredth time I've read Portia, but I love it every time. It's calculation in a world that lacks any. It's giving in to solve a problem. It's dealing with the consequences and the fallout of a problem being solved. So, let me say this, the story itself is golden. I always think you can cut some worldbuilding description, but in this case I'm going to say I'm wrong. Your people and your magazines will expect to see as much world building as you currently have. So, the story is good. Stop fucking with it, ok? Cool! That interlude...I don't understand its purpose. I don't think it's necessary. It's a bunch of people who respected the inspector, trying to bring him back. But, man, he's super dead and ain't coming back. So, unless you've got a really good, story propelling, reason for it, I say cut it. Move straight into chapter two. We already knew that the inspector, aside from maybe getting a big head was a good dude. He was someone the people liked. Seeing them mourn his death does not intensify or remind any more than has already been planted in my forebrain while reading the story. The more interesting interlude (if you want to do one) is from Portia's perspective. First person. I am re-reading No Country for Old Men and the first person interluded from the Sheriff are great. They are insightful and help solidify the ending of that novel. But feel free to post your original concerns and thoughts on the interlude and we can keep looking at it. |
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Post by Charlie Allison on Nov 3, 2017 16:35:55 GMT
I've reworked 'Portia' a bit and I'm experimenting with an interlude showing the aftereffects of the inspector's death. I'll post more of my concerns later--hope this doesn't suck too bad. Charlie Charlie, This may be the six-hundredth time I've read Portia, but I love it every time. It's calculation in a world that lacks any. It's giving in to solve a problem. It's dealing with the consequences and the fallout of a problem being solved. So, let me say this, the story itself is golden. I always think you can cut some worldbuilding description, but in this case I'm going to say I'm wrong. Your people and your magazines will expect to see as much world building as you currently have. So, the story is good. Stop fucking with it, ok? Cool! That interlude...I don't understand its purpose. I don't think it's necessary. It's a bunch of people who respected the inspector, trying to bring him back. But, man, he's super dead and ain't coming back. So, unless you've got a really good, story propelling, reason for it, I say cut it. Move straight into chapter two. We already knew that the inspector, aside from maybe getting a big head was a good dude. He was someone the people liked. Seeing them mourn his death does not intensify or remind any more than has already been planted in my forebrain while reading the story. The more interesting interlude (if you want to do one) is from Portia's perspective. First person. I am re-reading No Country for Old Men and the first person interluded from the Sheriff are great. They are insightful and help solidify the ending of that novel. But feel free to post your original concerns and thoughts on the interlude and we can keep looking at it. Justin: I'm horrified to find that there are still little typos in portia. However, I am energized by the fact that you found them and I can now sharpen it even more. The Interlude is something I'm throwing in because I've been trying for a month to write the story proper, the day after your city's most famous representative has all his thoughts memories and nightmares spread all over a strange boarding house like cream-cheese over a fucking bagel. It wasn't clicking, the way I wanted it to--i may need to consult on you with police procedural measures in a world with magic but that's neither here nor there. The interlude was my attempt to scale back, zoom out as it were. What would that inciting incident, the inspector's death, look like a month later? A year? A few decades? I like the idea of putting it from Portia's POV--CORMAC! DAMN THEE!--if I wanted to add tension and form to my novel, I could keep her as a recurring character. As you said, she's a foreigner in a integrating city--a conflicted city--and exists to try and quantify something that can't be quantified. It would allow for conflict to come organically, have her pinball off of other characters. But here I run into the 'Shadow' problem (so named for the protagonist of American Gods, notoriously taciturn and in gaiman's words, hard to direct). I don't like Portia, as a character. She's not interesting, she's a walking solution to a particular equation. So what happens if I take away her script? Have someone bomb the train she was going to take home? Strand her in Teoticama? Where her last known residence was the site of a very public murder and with no hope of aid from the Triumvirs or anyone else? How do I develop that into a character arc (there has to be one--I refuse to just have her be Evil because Evil)? What are your thoughts on this, guys? |
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Julia
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Post by Julia on Nov 15, 2017 17:06:49 GMT
The interlude was my attempt to scale back, zoom out as it were. What would that inciting incident, the inspector's death, look like a month later? A year? A few decades? I like the idea of putting it from Portia's POV--CORMAC! DAMN THEE!--if I wanted to add tension and form to my novel, I could keep her as a recurring character. As you said, she's a foreigner in a integrating city--a conflicted city--and exists to try and quantify something that can't be quantified. It would allow for conflict to come organically, have her pinball off of other characters. But here I run into the 'Shadow' problem (so named for the protagonist of American Gods, notoriously taciturn and in gaiman's words, hard to direct). I don't like Portia, as a character. She's not interesting, she's a walking solution to a particular equation. So what happens if I take away her script? Have someone bomb the train she was going to take home? Strand her in Teoticama? Where her last known residence was the site of a very public murder and with no hope of aid from the Triumvirs or anyone else? How do I develop that into a character arc (there has to be one--I refuse to just have her be Evil because Evil)? What are your thoughts on this, guys? Hi Charlie! Sorry this took forever. The story is a lot cleaner and more streamlined than I remember. The tension builds nicely. I enjoyed the details of Portia's plans, the thoroughness of her inspection of the sewers and cataloging his day. Some random thoughts: - I think it needs to be harder for Portia to get the spiders onto the Inspector. Make it a nail-biting scene where we wonder if she will be caught. Maybe there is a reason that the timing of the train door closing has to be perfect? It interrupts his wards?
- Why does she only do the spider dream spell thing after she has checked all other options? What are the dangers of dealing with Irrogigan? If you want to be rid of Portia or give her a character arc, that would be a good possibility. Is Portia willing to be killed or tortured by Irrogigan to complete her mission?
- Portia says that the Inspector has to lose his reputation before his life, but the Interlude suggests that he is still respected. I was expecting more buildup once the dreams began. Like he would catch glimpses of Portia all over the city but not catch up to her, and slowly his work would suffer. Maybe Portia would come in and solve cases? Maybe Portia would end up as the new inspector?
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Post by Charlie Allison on Nov 21, 2017 16:40:21 GMT
The interlude was my attempt to scale back, zoom out as it were. What would that inciting incident, the inspector's death, look like a month later? A year? A few decades? I like the idea of putting it from Portia's POV--CORMAC! DAMN THEE!--if I wanted to add tension and form to my novel, I could keep her as a recurring character. As you said, she's a foreigner in a integrating city--a conflicted city--and exists to try and quantify something that can't be quantified. It would allow for conflict to come organically, have her pinball off of other characters. But here I run into the 'Shadow' problem (so named for the protagonist of American Gods, notoriously taciturn and in gaiman's words, hard to direct). I don't like Portia, as a character. She's not interesting, she's a walking solution to a particular equation. So what happens if I take away her script? Have someone bomb the train she was going to take home? Strand her in Teoticama? Where her last known residence was the site of a very public murder and with no hope of aid from the Triumvirs or anyone else? How do I develop that into a character arc (there has to be one--I refuse to just have her be Evil because Evil)? What are your thoughts on this, guys? Hi Charlie! Sorry this took forever. The story is a lot cleaner and more streamlined than I remember. The tension builds nicely. I enjoyed the details of Portia's plans, the thoroughness of her inspection of the sewers and cataloging his day. Some random thoughts: - I think it needs to be harder for Portia to get the spiders onto the Inspector. Make it a nail-biting scene where we wonder if she will be caught. Maybe there is a reason that the timing of the train door closing has to be perfect? It interrupts his wards?
- Why does she only do the spider dream spell thing after she has checked all other options? What are the dangers of dealing with Irrogigan? If you want to be rid of Portia or give her a character arc, that would be a good possibility. Is Portia willing to be killed or tortured by Irrogigan to complete her mission?
- Portia says that the Inspector has to lose his reputation before his life, but the Interlude suggests that he is still respected. I was expecting more buildup once the dreams began. Like he would catch glimpses of Portia all over the city but not catch up to her, and slowly his work would suffer. Maybe Portia would come in and solve cases? Maybe Portia would end up as the new inspector?
Julia: Thanks for the lovely feedback! You bring up salient and intriguing points--I could string out the madness putty a bit more, and introduce (Gasp!) actual stakes--I'll start hacking away at this as soon as I am able. You're a saint, and don't apologize--that any of us is on here at all is a minor miracle  I hope to read more of your stuff soon! Charlie |
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Post by princessdiana92 on Dec 3, 2017 4:23:49 GMT
I've reworked 'Portia' a bit and I'm experimenting with an interlude showing the aftereffects of the inspector's death. I'll post more of my concerns later--hope this doesn't suck too bad. Charlie Charlie!!!! sorry it has taken me soooo long to look over this but I have to say this draft is much improved from what I remember of the first one I read... almost like different story altogether. I love the quick wit and bad-ass nature of Portia. she is your classic hit-woman with a hint of the supernatural, as all your characters have in the chronicles (if I may call them that). I love the way you describe things in her bag which shows more of her character, such as: " Further down in her bag was her collapsible hook-blade scarcely larger than Portia’s palm that served as a handy glass cutter for when burglary was part of the job description." I assume with glass cutter you mean of a window? At first I wasn't sure - might be a small thing to clear up just with a different description, perhaps. Small little things like that could possibly trip the reader up and I don't think that's what you want in this story, though Portia (by nature) isn't exactly a high-action gal, more of a careful and calculating woman. And, as always, one of my favorite things about Portia are her living tattoos. The arachnids in particular, I just love how they come alive and act as her spies. Really one of the greatest things about this story in my opinion. Love this description: "Portia’s tattoos were the nexus between arachnids and grammar. At a gesture, they could disintegrate into semicolons, commas, periods or any number of symbols only to reform into jumping predators moving on oiled feet across solid surfaces. Jointed shadows." Once again, excellent work creating the bustling world around her, too. Portia glides through it, not quite making her presence known. Like she exists in the moment, but on the edge. Also the way you describe the inspector is very well done and thorough. You show us the care he takes in his everyday actions that appear like he isn't paying attention although he is, and Portia sees this the way the reader also is shown. Your writing is enchanting. I absolutely enjoyed the moment when the inspector finally follows Portia and Irrogigan is described as taking all that means anything to him. I remember Irrogigan from one of your very first stories I read, the House Beyond the Waterfall. You have such poetic, descriptive language here and described Irrogigan as weaving his dreams on her loom... just perfect. I love how much you have revised this story from the first read. Having the inspector glimpse Portia in the market after seeing her in his dreams - it's a fascinating way to create an assassination, and I was hooked the whole time (tho I kinda knew the way it ended, I couldn't stop reading). Portia is very three dimensional in this version. I felt I learned a lot about her and love every detail you incorporated. I don't really have anything to improve in this draft. It's clean and compelling. I was hooked and glad you shared this. Looking forward to more... also, great shout-out to the Captain and the train. I think it says a lot that you can carry these characters through multiple stories and the reader can still recognize them with a certain familiarity. |
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I hope to read more of your stuff soon!