Justin's First Submission: Cleat Chaser

[justin1023]

Hey all, 

I don't know what happened when I tried to post this Saturday. I am finishing up family vacation where I went completely off the grid, but I had (thought I) posted this Saturday from the airport. Since it's so late in the week, feel free to skip your feedback, but here it is:

Cleat Chaser

This is a story I wrote a long time ago in the MFA program, but this was a complete rebuild on the rewrite. So while it may feel familiar, I hope it is still fresh enough not to bore you. Mostly, I'm concerned with the following: 

-I absolutely don't want to appropriate what a woman goes through in this type of situation, so if at any point it seems like I'm doing that, let me know and I'll kill this story

-Does the telling of this story from Leah's perspective only make Pat feel sympathetic enough that you don't hate him by the end (this doesn't matter story wise, but I'm curious)

-How's the pace? Does the entire backstory and resolution feel like it comes too quickly?

-I reworked the dialogue a lot in this one (because I changed from shifting POV to just Leah's). How does it flow?

-Any other comments are welcome!

Sorry again! I swear I push Create Thread on Saturday!

Attachments:

CleatChaser.pdf (103.39 KB)

[Charlie Allison]

May 31, 2017 13:33:22 GMT justin1023 said:

Hey all, 

I don't know what happened when I tried to post this Saturday. I am finishing up family vacation where I went completely off the grid, but I had (thought I) posted this Saturday from the airport. Since it's so late in the week, feel free to skip your feedback, but here it is:

Cleat Chaser

This is a story I wrote a long time ago in the MFA program, but this was a complete rebuild on the rewrite. So while it may feel familiar, I hope it is still fresh enough not to bore you. Mostly, I'm concerned with the following: 

-I absolutely don't want to appropriate what a woman goes through in this type of situation, so if at any point it seems like I'm doing that, let me know and I'll kill this story

-Does the telling of this story from Leah's perspective only make Pat feel sympathetic enough that you don't hate him by the end (this doesn't matter story wise, but I'm curious)

-How's the pace? Does the entire backstory and resolution feel like it comes too quickly?

-I reworked the dialogue a lot in this one (because I changed from shifting POV to just Leah's). How does it flow?

-Any other comments are welcome!

Sorry again! I swear I push Create Thread on Saturday!

Justin:
No worries. This version of CLEAT CHASER, I'm happy to say, is a much easier read. Keeping it all in Leah's POV greatly improves consistency of tone and world building.

-I absolutely don't want to appropriate what a woman goes through in this type of situation, so if at any point it seems like I'm doing that, let me know and I'll kill this story
I don't think that's something you need to worry about. You don't exploit or glamourize a terrible event and you are able to give enough detail so that the audience knows what happened (you flat out call it a rape in the first page, removing any shade of ambiguity--which is good) but not enough detail to make it salacious or crude or like a certain sequence we all remember from our MFA days. Landmine averted!

-Does the telling of this story from Leah's perspective only make Pat feel sympathetic enough that you don't hate him by the end (this doesn't matter story wise, but I'm curious)
Since I was raised by a lapsed catholic, I'm familiar with the phrase 'sin of omission.' This sums up Pat pretty well to me--him out and out saying he's a coward and diagramming what he would have lost by trying to interfere both made us sympathize with him and ground the story in reality--heroism is a costly business.

-How's the pace? Does the entire backstory and resolution feel like it comes too quickly?
Pacing is fine--I have some thoughts about that below, in regards to Miguel, but in general this thing is paced well enough that we can follow the action and motivation of the characters. No major problems there.

-I reworked the dialogue a lot in this one (because I changed from shifting POV to just Leah's). How does it flow?

The dialogue is much improved--a lot seems to be cut away, and that makes what remains stronger and more meaningful.



The first iteration was written, in my mind, as the precursor to a revenge fic, and part of that still remain in lines like this:

She’d already made plans for the other players, but Pat, he had to be first. It helped that he was the only one who’d already washed out, who’d been forced from the game. It helped that he was relatively local. But it did not help that he wasn’t in the room that night.

The term 'plans' has an ominous edge to it, and it should. Someone like Leah absolutely would be in a position to consider revenge or confrontation. But I think that these artifacts of the old story can help tell a much more interesting one. To whit, she starts out with this elaborate, Kill Bill-esque plan to deal with Miguel and the other dark room switchers. There is no question she's considering some method of recompense or closure.
But Pat being so close, she stops in to see him first. In the first draft, it was almost a recruitment--'help set right what went wrong' type of deal pitch to Pat. I like that this aspect has largely been removed--you let the weight of the unsaid do a lot of the emotional heavy lifting. Throughout her discussion with Pat, it becomes clear that they've both changed since her trauma (duh) but much of this is done through the venue of drinking, talking around the issue in a way that would make Hemingway cream his pants. I particularly liked this little sequence:

“Cheers,” she said.

“What?”

“A toast to unanswered questions.”

Here is a major sticking point for me though. Pat was an unknown quality to Leah--hence his prioritization. What kinda threw me off was bringing plans to deal with Miguel back into the story near the end--actually on the last page:

Miguel became a free agent that winter. Leah had been following his career. His rise through the minors. His Major League debut. His All-Star appearance. If she was ever going to confront him, it had to be this winter, while he was still unsigned. While he was most approachable, living in his ridiculously large home in Las Vegas.

I think the placement of this paragraph takes the weight away from the ending--could you place it earlier, under the 'miguel has done well for himself' section earlier in the story?



Here are some examples of your minimalism at work:

Leah McColsky wanted the noise.

I've talked about this sentence in my line notes--I think its super strong and should be the opening to the story rather than a description of gravel. Start with Leah McColsky wanting the noise, fill in the soundscape as she pulls into Pat's bar and let the story unfold.

It was never Miguel and the other two that she thought of as the days and weeks and years went by. It was always Pat. She knew the questions she’d ask the others, but she hadn’t understood Pat at all. Now, she was a lot closer to understanding.

Here are my line notes...I hope they help.CLEAT CHASER CHARLIES FEEDBACK.pdf (122.93 KB)

[Julia]

Sorry this is so late, but I got super busy at work the 2nd half of the week! Also, I really had to think about this one and rewrite my critique several times. I’m going to be brutally honest, but I don’t know if this will help you because I may not be the audience for this work.

-I absolutely don't want to appropriate what a woman goes through in this type of situation, so if at any point it seems like I'm doing that, let me know and I'll kill this story

Literature does have a history of stories where a female character’s assault is used to motivate a male character, and I did think your first version didn’t bring a new enough perspective on that type of story. However, I think you actually over-corrected on some things by trying to avoid appropriation while not bringing a strong POV to tackle the subject.

The story now feels too on the nose: “She couldn’t stop thinking about the dark room switch—the rape. And she couldn’t stop thinking about how he did nothing about it.” The reader is told how to feel about things: “He’d just been a stupid kid. She’d been a stupid girl. Now she knew.” I think we’re actually told too much about everything, Leah’s support group, her thoughts about Pat, and particularly the dark room switch. In the previous version, the reader was more engaged in piecing together exactly what happened that night.

The main weakness for me was that I didn’t get what this story was trying to do. I think you are most interested in asking questions about male sports culture and why men go along with crimes against women. In this version, the story becomes about Leah’s revenge, but the climax is weak because it relies on a conversation with Pat being able to change her mind. “But now, sitting on the tailgate with the one person who could have rescued her, she wasn’t sure what she would have done” is a profound realization, but I don’t see how she got there.

If you want to keep the story as it is now, I would change 2 things. First, give us more understanding of why Pat behaved the way he did. I kind of understand intellectually, but I don’t really understand in that visceral way a story could do. One interesting point you made was about his wife and daughter, but you bring it up without making a comment about it. Why do some men only emphasize with women by framing it terms of their own family?

Second, have Leah’s realization at the end be something more complex. Instead of thinking that Pat was a stupid kid and forgiving him, consider different responses. Maybe she doesn’t forgive and leaves angry. Maybe she thinks how many other men have done similar things and she cynically decides that she has to forgive him because it’s the only way to live in a world full of rapists. Also, if you are going to call the story “Cleat Chaser,” why not have Leah actually be a cleat chaser? The story seems to suggest that Leah’s rape is worse because she wasn't promiscuous. But a dark room switch would be rape even if the woman had a history of sleeping with ball players. The story would then ask the reader to consider their own prejudices.

However, it seems like you are still finding the story you want to tell. What do you want the reader to get out of this? I don’t know if one POV is the way to go.



-Does the telling of this story from Leah's perspective only make Pat feel sympathetic enough that you don't hate him by the end (this doesn't matter story wise, but I'm curious)
I found him less sympathetic in this version. In the last version, I did really feel his guilt and how he was physically sick at what he had done.


-How's the pace? Does the entire backstory and resolution feel like it comes too quickly?
I would cut a lot of the backstory. It might be an interesting exercise to cut everything except the dialogue and then gradually add other stuff back as you need. I think you can rely on the dialogue more than you think. It would engage the reader more to slowly realize that Leah actually knows Pat but is pretending she doesn’t and then find out about the rape as we go along.

-I reworked the dialogue a lot in this one (because I changed from shifting POV to just Leah's). How does it flow?
The dialogue is strong, except some places where characters are so on the nose that it feels a bit unnatural like Pat’s dialogue on page 13: “When Billy and Donovan followed Miguel back into the room, unbuckling their pants, I felt sick.” Having him talk about it in a more roundabout way would show his own discomfort and guilt, like the line “I put my headphones on, laid down on the couch, and went to sleep” which is devastating in its honesty and banality.


Sorry, I know that was a lot of negative stuff. What you are trying to do is ambitious and difficult to get right, but it has the potential to illuminate a lot of difficult subjects.

[princessdiana92]

Hey Justin!!

Sorry for the belated feedback, it's been quite the whirlwind for me ever since graduation, and I'm only now getting my head on straight. ;P 

I was intrigued to read this revised version of the story we read months ago. When I first started reading, I missed the way you had originally began the story, but I guess that's due to no longer giving Pat's POV. Which part of me misses. 

I think a really good book to check out is 13 Reasons Why  - recently turned into a Netflix series, which got a lot of mixed feedback because it is so graphic into issues such as this - the rape done to a girl by jocks... - so this definitely isn't a new story (it happens way more often than we like to think) but I wouldn't worry that you are telling it wrong from the female perspective. It's natural for a girl to want revenge and some sort of closure after that sort of thing... what I think you might be missing, though, is the horrible emotional impact it would have on her. She will doubt everything about herself, and about everyone she knows. 

From personal experience, which I would rather not get into here but wouldn't mind discussing more privately for the sake of this story, sometimes rape happens from someone you trust. Someone you know (or think you know) better than anyone. A friend. This isn't the case here, which makes it all the more terrifying for Leah, and I would imagine very difficult for her to deal with and face. Because of this, I think some of her reactions seemed a little off to me, or just need some further clarification. 

- When she first walks into the bar, Pat kneels down below the bar and it's made pretty clear he's drinking on the job; Leah smiles at this and this is apparently key enough for her to realize he remembered everything... that wasn't too clear to me, how just by seeing him drinking under the bar clued her to the fact that he remembered his part in her rape (why does she even assume he knows a thing?) I think because we don't get his perspective, it's a little harder to come to these types of conclusions. Maybe that's just me.

- Leah is so convinced that Pat was outside the room for the entire night, but how does she know this if she was drunk enough to be taken advantage of? Maybe mention her first going into the room with Miguel and catching Pat's eyes. Maybe there was a certain look he gave her, like he knew what was about to happen, like he knew it was a bad idea, but she did it anyway. How would she know that he stayed outside the room the entire time? How would she KNOW he stayed to see Miguel and Billy and Donovan enter/exit the room? It's all a little too certain in her mind for the state she was in at the time... 

(One way I see going about this could be giving Leah and Pat some sort of relationship prior to the party. Which would explain also why she knows so much about him at the bar. And that adds some tension between them. They were old friends. Or even just acquaintances, maybe had the same class together and exchanged notes a couple times... they don't have to be super close, but I think if they knew who each other was somehow beforehand, it would be a lot more beneficial to the story overall. Then, after the party, Leah feels betrayed by him - more understandably - and they never speak again. She avoids his eye contact in every class, until she finally hunts him down at the bar - how long after the incident is it supposed to be, by the way? I got the idea it was long after high school since he's married with a kid, but could be good to somehow work that in more, too... what's changed for Leah in life after high school? What does she have at stake to lose if she can't overcome this incident from back in high school? Add some more character development so we understand she's come so far and can't let this hold her back any longer.)

- "He’d just been a stupid
kid. She’d been a stupid girl. Now she knew." That's way too neat and tidy and missing all the emotional jumble of turmoil that Leah is supposedly feeling about the rape... it's like she just lets it go and it's as simple as that. But I don't think it should be so simple. I think really delving into her emotions and how this situation would make her feel would do this story some real good. And I don't think she would feel so unburdened just from "confronting" Pat. I also don't feel she confronted him enough. Rape is a very serious thing, and it's a total loss of control, so Leah would be seeking to regain some of that control on her life. I think you have that here right now, but it's buried. 

I actually kind of missed having Pat's POV in here, and I think a lot of this story is still written as if we know his POV. The situation at the party seems a little jumbled to me, and I didn't quite understand how Leah was so sure of Pat's part in her rape. But it can be cleaned up and I think this story is very worth telling. I would not give up on it, I think you're only started to discover Leah's character and her experience. But I wanted to know so much more about her as a person. What she's gone through since then, where she's found herself in life while her rapist grows in fame as a star ballplayer and she feels trapped in the darkness from the scars of what he did to her. That's on the edges right now and not acknowledged or explored. I think it would really give more life and motivation to Leah as a character if we saw where she was now in life. There's a lot of focus on the past, which I understand, but I think the reader needs to see where she's ended up to fully understand why she feels the need for this confrontation, too. It's about more than moving on from a past event. It's about coming to terms with something she can never really understand, and being able to continue living a life less burdened by the weight of that. 

I'm interested to see what you decide to do with this story. I think you just need to consider Leah's character some more and really decide what you want to tell in this story.  

Line Notes for your perusal: T comments CleatChaser 1.pdf (187.11 KB)

[abi]

May 31, 2017 13:33:22 GMT justin1023 said:

Cleat Chaser

-I absolutely don't want to appropriate what a woman goes through in this type of situation, so if at any point it seems like I'm doing that, let me know and I'll kill this story

-Does the telling of this story from Leah's perspective only make Pat feel sympathetic enough that you don't hate him by the end (this doesn't matter story wise, but I'm curious)

-How's the pace? Does the entire backstory and resolution feel like it comes too quickly?

-I reworked the dialogue a lot in this one (because I changed from shifting POV to just Leah's). How does it flow?

-Any other comments are welcome!

    I’m so sorry about being MIA this session. We were moving and it got pretty crazy. So, here is my very very late post. I hope it’s still helpful. You don’t have to respond to it, Justin.

    First of all, the first section of this story is amazing now. I think the original was from both POV’s. But now, it makes a lot more sense told from just Leah’s. Everything just flows better now, and I had less questions about what was going on. Although, maybe that’s just because I already knew the story. I’m not sure. But I do think it’s a lot more straightforward now, and I’m pretty sure it’s ready to be sent out. I had very few notes on it. And the notes I did have just seemed to be picky little stuff to me.

    It’s hard to say what is an appropriate response for a woman going through something this traumatic. That’s a tricky subject that I think might work against you, Justin, when you send it out. For instance, I could see someone saying something like, “why is she so forgiving towards Pat? Is confronting people really a healthy way to cope? Is this a message we want women to take away from this story?” But that’s because you’re dealing with a very difficult subject matter that everyone will have a different opinion. But, as long as you can defend it, Justin, I say don’t listen to them. There is redemption in this story, of a kind. She’s doing what she feels is right in order to heal. And to her, if that means talking things out with these guys then it’s what she has to do. It’s a story that allows characters to make mistakes, but to move on and have a life afterwards, which is very important.

    Ok, so. Now I wanna talk about motive. Because I feel like the end is lacking something, and I’m not quite sure what it is. I can’t remember what happened in the original, but I’m pretty sure she was going to confront the next guy, right? That’s kind of buried in this version of the stories. It's there, but only once closer to the beginning. I’m wondering if that was on purpose? Because why, out of all these guys, is she confronting just Pat? And what does she get out of it at the end? Because while she’s settled some things, there’s still the fact that she hasn’t confronted her actual rapist, which would probably have been the more difficult journey for Leah emotionally. It's more clear with Pat what her motive is. She has gaps in her knowledge of the event, and she’s trying to put the pieces together to fully understand what happened. But at the end, it kind of sounds like she already understands what happened? “The Dark room switch,” she calls it. So, she already knows. But then, what is it she wants from Pat? Is it just to hear him say, “I’m sorry. I was a terrible person?” These are all things for you to think about, Justin. It depends where you want this story to end up. We need to know what Leah has accomplished there at the end.

    Both the pace and the dialog were great. It’s just about ready to send out, in my opinion. I loved the line in the beginning, “The thoughts popped and faded like a sparkler on a summer night.” It’s such a good story, awkward in all the right ways. Excellent work, Justin, on reviving it and hopefully sending it out soon.

APs Line notes on CleatChaser.pdf (159.94 KB)

[justin1023]

Jun 6, 2017 14:51:07 GMT abi said:

May 31, 2017 13:33:22 GMT justin1023 said:

Cleat Chaser

-I absolutely don't want to appropriate what a woman goes through in this type of situation, so if at any point it seems like I'm doing that, let me know and I'll kill this story

-Does the telling of this story from Leah's perspective only make Pat feel sympathetic enough that you don't hate him by the end (this doesn't matter story wise, but I'm curious)

-How's the pace? Does the entire backstory and resolution feel like it comes too quickly?

-I reworked the dialogue a lot in this one (because I changed from shifting POV to just Leah's). How does it flow?

-Any other comments are welcome!

    I’m so sorry about being MIA this session. We were moving and it got pretty crazy. So, here is my very very late post. I hope it’s still helpful. You don’t have to respond to it, Justin.

    First of all, the first section of this story is amazing now. I think the original was from both POV’s. But now, it makes a lot more sense told from just Leah’s. Everything just flows better now, and I had less questions about what was going on. Although, maybe that’s just because I already knew the story. I’m not sure. But I do think it’s a lot more straightforward now, and I’m pretty sure it’s ready to be sent out. I had very few notes on it. And the notes I did have just seemed to be picky little stuff to me.

    It’s hard to say what is an appropriate response for a woman going through something this traumatic. That’s a tricky subject that I think might work against you, Justin, when you send it out. For instance, I could see someone saying something like, “why is she so forgiving towards Pat? Is confronting people really a healthy way to cope? Is this a message we want women to take away from this story?” But that’s because you’re dealing with a very difficult subject matter that everyone will have a different opinion. But, as long as you can defend it, Justin, I say don’t listen to them. There is redemption in this story, of a kind. She’s doing what she feels is right in order to heal. And to her, if that means talking things out with these guys then it’s what she has to do. It’s a story that allows characters to make mistakes, but to move on and have a life afterwards, which is very important.

    Ok, so. Now I wanna talk about motive. Because I feel like the end is lacking something, and I’m not quite sure what it is. I can’t remember what happened in the original, but I’m pretty sure she was going to confront the next guy, right? That’s kind of buried in this version of the stories. It's there, but only once closer to the beginning. I’m wondering if that was on purpose? Because why, out of all these guys, is she confronting just Pat? And what does she get out of it at the end? Because while she’s settled some things, there’s still the fact that she hasn’t confronted her actual rapist, which would probably have been the more difficult journey for Leah emotionally. It's more clear with Pat what her motive is. She has gaps in her knowledge of the event, and she’s trying to put the pieces together to fully understand what happened. But at the end, it kind of sounds like she already understands what happened? “The Dark room switch,” she calls it. So, she already knows. But then, what is it she wants from Pat? Is it just to hear him say, “I’m sorry. I was a terrible person?” These are all things for you to think about, Justin. It depends where you want this story to end up. We need to know what Leah has accomplished there at the end.

    Both the pace and the dialog were great. It’s just about ready to send out, in my opinion. I loved the line in the beginning, “The thoughts popped and faded like a sparkler on a summer night.” It’s such a good story, awkward in all the right ways. Excellent work, Justin, on reviving it and hopefully sending it out soon.

Hey! Thanks, Abi! I'll take late feedback anytime. I really appreciate your comments and encouragement.