V's first submission: What's Done in the Dark

[V]

Hi guys, high school can be a bitch, right? Hope you enjoy! Whats Done in the Dark.pdf (161.09 KB)

[justin1023]

Jun 5, 2017 20:07:46 GMT V said:

Hi guys, high school can be a bitch, right? Hope you enjoy! 

V, another great high school story. I don't want my kids to grow up because you remind me how shitty high school can be

This is an interesting story in the fact that I do not empathize with Ebony at all. I don't think the reader needs to, though. She doesn't have to be a character the reader wants to be friends with, she doesn't have to do things the reader agrees with, and the ending doesn't have to be "happy." However, I think there are some character details you can improve on. 

Ebony seems to have thought she could change Mack. But change him from what? A jock? Why? Why did she like Mack in the first place? It seems Ebony thought she could also save him from Dynasty, but what was so bad about Dynasty. To me, from the outside, Dynasty seems to be on equal footing with Ebony and Sierra. So, there are a couple of things you can do there. Show us more of why Ebony is interested in Mack (that makes it more painful that she thought he was going to be with her when he was really just trying to get some ass), and do something to either make Ebony better than Dynasty or (probably better) make Dynasty worse. I think you tried by suggesting that Dynasty stole from the student body fund. But that wasn't quite enough for me. 

You fucking dialogue, V! It's so good. It's so real. And you've done such a good job with eliminating most of the follow-on descriptions after the dialogue itself. I'd still love to see a block of conversation on the page from you with nothing but the words the characters speak (no dialogue tags, no action text, just dialogue). But I'll take this

One last thought I had was Mack (and Dynasty when she's in the parking lot at the end) seem to smug about the outcome of everything. Mack thinks he won, but his girl can no longer run and got suspended. Seems to be Ebony won even if people are calling her a slut and a liar. So maybe tone down the smugness in that final encounter with Mack. Maybe make Mack even more mean spirited. That would lend a bit of empathy to what Ebony does in the end. 

Great stuff, V! Thanks for posting!

Attachments:

Whats Done in the Dark.pdf (237.2 KB)

[abi]

Jun 5, 2017 20:07:46 GMT V said:

Hi guys, high school can be a bitch, right? Hope you enjoy! 

    I don’t know, V. This story was pretty clean. I have next to no line notes. The story its self was pretty engrossing, carried me all the way through. I think revenge fantasies are your new kick. Anyway, since you didn’t have any questions with your submission, I’m just going to jump right in on my critiques.

    First of all, I really liked how the drama played out in the beginning. Right away, we get into the conflict of Ebony having slept with Mack and the problems therein. We also get the issue of complexity with the fact that the guy she slept with is her competitor’s boyfriend. I really liked how all of that was clear right from the start. But I did have a lot of questions about Sierra. When she first comes into the story, I thought she was just a friend to Ebony? But she isn’t, because she’s also running for president? I wonder if this could be made clearer. Is Sierra just running as a way to hang out more with Ebony because the two are friends? Is she just the type of competitor who isn’t really trying anyway and just happened to make friends with Ebony? I don’t really understand Sierra’s motivation for running in the first place. And maybe you do have a reason, V, and it just hasn’t yet made it into the story. But I think it does need to be there.

    I hate to suggest this, because it’s usually Justin’s job to mention cutting characters, but do we really need Sierra? And if we do, would it make more sense for her just not to be running at all? Thoughts?

    Another small note, but please please please cut all the imagery with butterflies in the stomach. It’s kind of an overdone cliché. That’s an easy fix, just mention how she felt nervous in a different way. But, to balance out that critique, there was a really nice description early on that I liked, “It bounced off the window sill, shaking the glass so that balls of dust rained down on her like a cold sprinkle.” I really liked that line.

    Anyway, as for the future of these piece, I could easily see you doing a collection of revenge stories, V. If that’s something you’re interested in, and it seems to be something you’re good at. Maybe put this one together with “It’s Not Me, It’s You” and the other diarrhea story that I’m blanking on the name of. And then maybe aim them towards teens? I think you mentioned an interest in submitting in the teen fiction market on the query letter boards. But I really think this story has the potential to shopped around with that in mind. Might as well get it published now and then you can always put it in a collection later as well.

APs Line Notes on Whats Done in the Dark.pdf (231.52 KB)

[justin1023]

Jun 7, 2017 20:54:29 GMT abi said:

I hate to suggest this, because it’s usually Justin’s job to mention cutting characters, but do we really need Sierra? And if we do, would it make more sense for her just not to be running at all? Thoughts?

I do do that, don't I? In this case, I think Sierra serves an important purpose. She acts as Ebony's foil. She allows V to explain things to the reader through the lens of explaining to Sierra. So, I don't think Sierra should go, but I have two suggestions in line with Abi's comments: 

1) Clarify that Sierra is running for president and Ebony is running for vice, because that's the case right?
2) Drop other characters. My first inclination is to have you drop any teacher-like characters...the principal, the woman helping the girls prepare for the election, etc. Keep it to your high school core: Ebony, Sierra, Mack, Dynasty. 

What do you guys think?

[Julia]

You’re so good at establishing the characters with just a few details and lines of dialogue. Everyone felt three dimensional. I saw how Ebony wanted to project the image of a vice presidential candidates with her pearl earrings and donuts, while Sierra cracked me up with “a spaghetti-stained container of cookies” and “has all the penis left the room?” With that beautiful description of Dynasty, “her thick hair flowed down her warm skin like butter and her cupid’s-bow lips were always decorated in the deepest magenta, complementing her pearly white teeth,” I understood she was one of those superhuman popular girls. Even though Keith didn’t appear, I could just picture the type of person he was, falling over the ottoman while dancing.

I like how you capture the high pressure environment of high school. Ebony has the same problems as adults with relationships and ambition but it’s magnified by how the other students watch every move. The dialogue has so many good lines:

“It’s Mack, sweetie, he’s the type of person that pours milk in the bowl before cereal.”

The only character I would have liked more detail on was Mack. I would have liked to see more of why Ebony is attracted to him and why even the teachers believe him. We only saw his douche side, but I assume he can be really charming.  If we saw what Ebony sees in him, we'd have more investment in the story.

Like Justin, I wasn’t sure if I was supposed to be rooting for Ebony. It’s fine to have an ambiguous character, but I wasn’t sure if the ambiguity was intentional. At the beginning, I thought she might be manipulating Mack. Did she spill the drink on him on purpose? Did she move the condom so Keith would see it? Her comment about the secretary was really bitchy, and I was on Dynasty’s side in the fight, especially after Ebony brought up her mother. The ending made it seem like it was Ebony’s moment of victory, but I actually felt bad for Mack, even though he’s a jerk. But if the reader was supposed to have mixed feelings at the end, then ignore this comment.

Jun 7, 2017 21:40:04 GMT justin1023 said:

1) Clarify that Sierra is running for president and Ebony is running for vice, because that's the case right?
2) Drop other characters. My first inclination is to have you drop any teacher-like characters...the principal, the woman helping the girls prepare for the election, etc. Keep it to your high school core: Ebony, Sierra, Mack, Dynasty. 

What do you guys think?

I totally didn't realize that Sierra was running for president.  I thought she may have been running for one of the other offices.  If Ebony's friend is popular enough to win president, I would have thought Ebony would be more confident about herself winnning.  I actually like having all the characters.  It makes the world feel three dimensional, and public humiliation is a big theme, we get a sense of all these eyes on the girls.  

I would love to see a novel about these characters.  I want to see where they go.

[abi]

Jun 8, 2017 13:34:34 GMT Julia said:

Jun 7, 2017 21:40:04 GMT justin1023 said:

1) Clarify that Sierra is running for president and Ebony is running for vice, because that's the case right?
2) Drop other characters. My first inclination is to have you drop any teacher-like characters...the principal, the woman helping the girls prepare for the election, etc. Keep it to your high school core: Ebony, Sierra, Mack, Dynasty. 

What do you guys think?

I totally didn't realize that Sierra was running for president.  I thought she may have been running for one of the other offices.  If Ebony's friend is popular enough to win president, I would have thought Ebony would be more confident about herself winnning.  I actually like having all the characters.  It makes the world feel three dimensional, and public humiliation is a big theme, we get a sense of all these eyes on the girls.  

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the teachers. They kind of reinforced Ebony's so-called "good girl" image, and I think that if you took them out all together, V would have to find a different way to support the fact that Ebony is supposed to be this good girl. Because her actions in this story don't really support that. I don't know, maybe that's not so important at all, and if that's the case, then sure, get rid of the teachers. 

[Charlie Allison]

Jun 5, 2017 20:07:46 GMT V said:

Hi guys, high school can be a bitch, right? Hope you enjoy! View Attachment

Oh, revenge. Alternately a suckers game and one of the most satisfying things to read about when done well.
As usual, your language is direct and clear.

“Not this election. Your speech reached 300 views and a lot of people are saying you got their vote in the comments.”

Iove love love this method of adapting to high school elections—its fresh and I want to know more about the mechanics of how people tailor their brands, their speeches, their pitches, to fit in with cell-phone and internet tech and how grudges and grievances carry over with that.
I feel like there is a hidden second story here--almost a techno thriller, a high school horse race on social media with escalating stakes and leaks. People cobbling together hashtags and algorithims to promote themselves on a smaller scale or cut down their enemies. And you could write that story, easily given your focus on versimilitude and relatable characters. Worth at least thinking about.
Anyway, onto the meat of the matter.
REVENGE! MUAHAHAHAHAH!
(I may have enjoyed that far too much. I'll try to keep it submerged for the rest of this.)
Here are things I felt obligated to comment upon as a reader:


Mack:
Does he need to be a character? I mean, I get the retaliation--he was a dick afterall--but I'm not certain that he needs to be 'on screen'. Like, just his name carries weight in universe. As Sierra says:

“It’s Mack, sweetie. He’s the type of person that pours milk in the bowl before cereal."

So he's not exactly a bright bulb--his word carries little weight except as a trophy or a status thing. So here is my thought--since the technology level is a relevant plot point (how many likes and views your speech gets for the student government thing etc, why not keep him relegated inside Ebony's phone. Texts, images--MACK himself doesn't need to be there. It could also be used to foreshadow the use of his photo as the final instrument of revenge--and bring the technological aspect to the fore of the story while retaining a human element. Thomas Harris talks about the "necessary ingredients for a revelation" in his Hannibal trilogy (otherwise dubious but whatever anyway) and by planting Mack as a cell-phone only presence (who Ebony reminisces about and sort of pines for by reviewing pictures) you are hinting at the final action Ebony takes at the end of the story--and providing a key ingredient for the audience and in-universe Ebony's final action. mack can still show up in person in the end, a brief cameo, and that breaks Ebony's willpower and makes her take out all the stops--but in the beginning, his actually being there I feel slows the story.


Dynasty:
-Easily flustered--the Mack thing alone could ruin her concentration/platform--why doesn't Ebony (or Sierra, who is a bit more casual about such things) use it as a line like 'Dynasty can't even keep a man' sort of thing before she can find out through the grapevine--as she does in the text? If there is only one day left in the election, and given the anonymizing factor of the internet, it would be easy to leak that at little to no risk to yourself to undermine Dynasty at the final hurdle so to speak--an easy thing considering the reputation she's constructed for herself over the last year.
Why is she deserving of the rough treatment is another question--she's a shameless opportunist (as is basically required to be in politics) but she also made the mistake of overstepping her bounds with her opponents in the story--being the first to escalate violence.

Here's the thing of revenge. It becomes too easy to root for no cause, even the wrong party, if the wronged party does excessive damage with their revenge. Not that I think that Ebony was out of line or anything--but that you need to set up the stakes early--what's the tone of this story going to be? Is it straight up revenge--because its more of a 'nobody is happy' type story.
This whole story was an example of a Pyrrhic Victory: you win the battle and lose the war (tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PyrrhicVictory) or of a scorched earth policy ('If I don't get X, Y, OR Z nobody does!"

Here is why its ok for Ebony to take revenge upon Dynasty--at it takes place around page six (other than Mack's SO). This is the first hint we get that this might be a revenge story--our antagonist is introduced, in my view, a little too late to be effective.

“And you did when you stole from the student account last year?” Ebony blurted. “We had to spend our skip day at the city park, getting attacked by geese.”

I think that Dynasty needs more screen-time, and Mack less--or else it becomes hard to see this as a story of revenge and more as a chain of events that happens. By allowing her to demonstrate her unpleasantness more consistently, the more the audience will want to see her comeuppance.


Great Work, Vee! I hope these line notes help
Charlies Line Notes WHATS DONE IN THE DARK.pdf (85.71 KB)

[Charlie Allison]

Jun 8, 2017 17:45:51 GMT abi said:

Jun 8, 2017 13:34:34 GMT Julia said:

I totally didn't realize that Sierra was running for president.  I thought she may have been running for one of the other offices.  If Ebony's friend is popular enough to win president, I would have thought Ebony would be more confident about herself winnning.  I actually like having all the characters.  It makes the world feel three dimensional, and public humiliation is a big theme, we get a sense of all these eyes on the girls.  

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the teachers. They kind of reinforced Ebony's so-called "good girl" image, and I think that if you took them out all together, V would have to find a different way to support the fact that Ebony is supposed to be this good girl. Because her actions in this story don't really support that. I don't know, maybe that's not so important at all, and if that's the case, then sure, get rid of the teachers. 

I'm afraid I'm with Justin on this one--the teachers, to me at least, disrupted the flow of an intense personal rivalry. The teacher's kept reminding us of the broader context (The election, school etc) but those things don't ultimately matter to the revenge arc--they are the pretext for behaving badly. By bringing in the teachers, it takes away time from knowing the characters and developing ways to predict their behaviors--half a revenge story lies in guessing in what form the revenge will come in. I know, I know, this is a high-school grudge match--but I do think that the more focus on Ebony/Dynasty friction (And Sierra, as a hot-headed foil) would allow the 'revenge' aspect of the story to come more to the fore. What do you think?

[justin1023]

Jun 8, 2017 17:45:51 GMT abi said:

Jun 8, 2017 13:34:34 GMT Julia said:

I totally didn't realize that Sierra was running for president.  I thought she may have been running for one of the other offices.  If Ebony's friend is popular enough to win president, I would have thought Ebony would be more confident about herself winnning.  I actually like having all the characters.  It makes the world feel three dimensional, and public humiliation is a big theme, we get a sense of all these eyes on the girls.  

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the teachers. They kind of reinforced Ebony's so-called "good girl" image, and I think that if you took them out all together, V would have to find a different way to support the fact that Ebony is supposed to be this good girl. Because her actions in this story don't really support that. I don't know, maybe that's not so important at all, and if that's the case, then sure, get rid of the teachers. 

That's interesting. While the teachers indicated the Ebony didn't have a track record, I never took her to be a "good girl." But I think that's because V did such a good job putting me in the moments of the story. And those moments are all surrounding Ebony not really being all that good.