Wrongness in the Water (Time sensitive--final draft due Fri)

[Charlie Allison]

Mentlegen!
I'm in the odd (and second) position of writing a story for a contest. Thanks to your help on Tindalos, I'm sure I'll get my foot in the door from last time but I digress. I'm entering my story in THIS contest:
www.brokeneyebooks.com/submissions.html
(Miskatonic in the present day--more lovecraft stuff, and paying a whopping 8c a word).

So here is where I fall down. I have a rough draft attached--and I know, tonally, its all over the place. I'm not sure what I should go for, so what I want to know from you is which of the tones I hit is the strongest that would serve the piece best in a macro-sense. I almost wanted to make this a pulpy story with a mystery angle, then I got distracted (as I do) and leaned harder on commentary than I meant to and overcorrected into mildly black comedy.
I do know that I need to bring out the character of the university as a place a bit more: like, what can people expect from this interpretation of the university in the 20th Century--it's what the anthology is asking for. Any ideas on how to make this feel less like 'murder-hogwarts' and more like something lovecraftian?

So, aside from that, here are my concerns:


-Monica's characterization--she's meant to be a pair of eyes observing Antoine/Ahpuchtzin (Ah Puch comes up as a Maya deathgod in some early 20th century writings on Mayan deathgods of Xibalba--but there is nothing to substantiate this name--the closest is Ah Pukul, who abused the primordial Bacab spirits but I digressah, fuck it, thug lyfe--and 'tzin' is a Mexica suffix which means, roughly 'lord'. Think the Japanese 'sama' suffix and you're about there.) But she's also meant to provide context for what's happening to him, showing him attempting to disrupt Ahpuchtzin and then succumbing to his influence. I'm afraid she's a guest in her own story.
-Antoine. Is he offensive--i meant to make him a biology nerd, a bit of a mechanistic, deterministic character who believes that all we can't see simply isn't worth dealing with. If it's not biological, it's bunkum, which makes his fate ironic--he is doomed by what he cannot see and cannot quantify.
-Is the sequence of events clear--I tried something new inspired by Justin and Julia's recent work and incorporated major time jumps in this story--do they help emphasize my points or boondoggle the audience?
-Ending--is there a way I can tie it together in a neater, more elegant way?

You guys are awesome and thanks in advance!

Charlie





Miskatonic story.pdf (78.44 KB)

[justin1023]

Jun 26, 2017 18:42:12 GMT Charlie Allison said:

Mentlegen!
I'm in the odd (and second) position of writing a story for a contest. Thanks to your help on Tindalos, I'm sure I'll get my foot in the door from last time but I digress. I'm entering my story in THIS contest:
www.brokeneyebooks.com/submissions.html
(Miskatonic in the present day--more lovecraft stuff, and paying a whopping 8c a word).

So here is where I fall down. I have a rough draft attached--and I know, tonally, its all over the place. I'm not sure what I should go for, so what I want to know from you is which of the tones I hit is the strongest that would serve the piece best in a macro-sense. I almost wanted to make this a pulpy story with a mystery angle, then I got distracted (as I do) and leaned harder on commentary than I meant to and overcorrected into mildly black comedy.
I do know that I need to bring out the character of the university as a place a bit more: like, what can people expect from this interpretation of the university in the 20th Century--it's what the anthology is asking for. Any ideas on how to make this feel less like 'murder-hogwarts' and more like something lovecraftian?

So, aside from that, here are my concerns:


-Monica's characterization--she's meant to be a pair of eyes observing Antoine/Ahpuchtzin (Ah Puch comes up as a Maya deathgod in some early 20th century writings on Mayan deathgods of Xibalba--but there is nothing to substantiate this name--the closest is Ah Pukul, who abused the primordial Bacab spirits but I digressah, fuck it, thug lyfe--and 'tzin' is a Mexica suffix which means, roughly 'lord'. Think the Japanese 'sama' suffix and you're about there.) But she's also meant to provide context for what's happening to him, showing him attempting to disrupt Ahpuchtzin and then succumbing to his influence. I'm afraid she's a guest in her own story.
-Antoine. Is he offensive--i meant to make him a biology nerd, a bit of a mechanistic, deterministic character who believes that all we can't see simply isn't worth dealing with. If it's not biological, it's bunkum, which makes his fate ironic--he is doomed by what he cannot see and cannot quantify.
-Is the sequence of events clear--I tried something new inspired by Justin and Julia's recent work and incorporated major time jumps in this story--do they help emphasize my points or boondoggle the audience?
-Ending--is there a way I can tie it together in a neater, more elegant way?

You guys are awesome and thanks in advance!

Charlie

Charlie, I have a lot to say on this story, so I'm going to write it out and hope that it answers your questions. 

Let's talk about what this story does well. First, it reads as literary sci-fi (or is it fantasy when Gods are involved), which is wonderful. I have been on a Ken Liu kick recently, and much of the structure of this story reminds me of his writing. The Miskatonic University world is built well. I can see it. It's dark, it's magical, it's modern-ish (more on that in a bit). If I had a critique on the world it's that it's too built out. I have, in my line notes, suggested cuts that should help this. Finally, this story follows the digressive path of Antoine well. I like that we start with an able-bodied young man then end with a sack of skin. A god wearing an Antoine suit, if you will. 

Now, for a second draft, where I'd like to start is on characterization. Charlie has indicated that he intentionally uses Monica as a vessel for telling Antoine's story through someone else's eyes. That's possible while also giving Monica agency and improving the story as a whole. Why can't Monica be in a relationship with Antoine (any kind of relationship)? In fact, rather than asking why, I think I must demand it. The instructions for the contest Charlie is entering says: 

"These tales combine college life and the cosmic weird. Of course, there's beer, sex, and parties; study groups and all-night cramming; campus activism and impassioned discourse; vital research and faculty struggling for tenure. But also, you know, gruesome and psychedelic cosmic weirdness."

Charlie's story is missing everything besides the "vital research" and "gruesome and psychedelic cosmic weirdness." So, make Antoine and Monica fuck buddies. How weird does that make the relationship when Antoine starts going crazy? (or starts succumbing to the god, to be more accurate). Give Monica agency in all this. She is studying linguistics. I think Charlie tried to incorporate that towards the end, but how can Monica use her own studies to help identify the changes in Antoine sooner. Wouldn't it be interesting to see Monica recognize what was happening and use that as an excuse to distance herself from her fuck buddy? And what if that didn't work? What if Antoine needed to hook up with her because she was the only thing tethering him to the world he'd once known? She can't escape him without doing something drastic. So, Monica hooks up with Professor Spates as a way of pushing Antoine away. Well, since Monica only thought of herself (getting out of the relationship), and because she didn't try to stop Antoine from doing what he was doing, even though she was starting to recognize it, she gets two professors killed, including Spates (whom Antoine kills in his last bit of humanity before succumbing to the god), and she allows the entire destructive process to complete. All because she was more concerned about herself than the good of the university. 

I'm beginning to write Charlie's story for him, and I don't want to do that, but hopefully that illustrates what I mean by Monica needing agency. 

Now, let's talk about what actually happens to Antoine. We understand that he is ultimately possessed in the end and that causes the university to set off charges that create a giant crater. But outside of that, I'm lost. Perhaps the readers of this anthology will not be as lost as myself, but I'm not sure that's true. Antoine's zoological research somehow contributes to his eventual obsession and his possession, right? In giving Monica more agency, Charlie will have the opportunity to introduce us better to what Antoine is actually going through. There is a distinct lack of intentional dialogue in this story. There needs to be more. We need Monica and Antoine to speak to each other. We need to understand through Antoine's own admission and through Monica's interpretation what is happening. What does Antoine think is happening? How does his mind change as he gets closer to losing himself? 

Basically, what I'm saying is Charlie needs to give both his main characters larger roles in their own story. 

One final point on the world building. I mentioned the world is modern-ish. Well, I say that only because there is nothing to lead me to believe it's not. HOWEVER, there is also nothing to suggest it is modern. I believe there are cars. That's fine, but cars have been around for 150 years. What else can Charlie include to show that this is a modern world? Cell phones? Social media? There are a lot of options, but it will ultimately be up to Charlie to pick something. Because outside of everything else, it's very possible that this little detail alone could derail Charlie's shot at acceptance for this contest because it specifically asks for a modern world. 

Finally, the tone. I didn't see the tone shifts that Charlie mentioned in his post, but I can give my opinion as to how the tone should read throughout: dark. Let this be a dark tale of sex, studies, gods, and death. Think something like what you'd see on the CW these days, but set in Charlie's world. Given the literary quality to the writing of this story, if Charlie focuses on a tone like that, I think this could be really wonderful. 

I hope all this helps, and I hope it's clear from the depth of the critique that I like this concept a lot and want it to work. I want this to be encouraging, not discouraging. This is a good story, it just needs to be released!

Attachments:

Miskatonic story.pdf (200.25 KB)

[Julia]

Since this is time sensitive, I’m just going to jump in and address your questions.

It didn’t feel like 'murder-hogwarts' to me (aside, murder Hogwarts is redundant, health and safety needed to close that place down). I think the aspect of the curriculum containing such dark and powerful courses interesting in the university setting, how the professors were at odds with each other, how easily a student could go wrong.

-Monica's characterization – I thought it was fine as an observer, but I did wonder at her reaction to Antoine’s behavior. I wondered why she was willing to stay in the dorm room without a working lock. Making her so wrapped up in her studies that she was willing to overlook things doesn’t quite work because the plot of the story relies on her observation of him.

-Antoine. Is he offensive—I’m surprised you would ask this. I don’t know what you mean by offensive. Honestly I just saw him as a guy infected by evil.

-Is the sequence of events clear? I think the time jumps work well for a story like this, where we need to see Antoine’s deterioration. It was poignant to see him go from swimming “naked and elegant as a blade” to dying in the water. The main problem for me was the information dumps in the beginning about the courses and professors. There were so many details that I was confused. I think you could drop some of the commentary and spend more time on the scenes. Professor Grosse’s lecture was a good way of integrating backstory. Show us Spates and Neil lecturing or around campus. Have more conversations between Monica and Antoine.
 Have Monica go see a wild beast when she first gets there.  

-Ending- I thought the ending was fine. I like the contrast of huge explosion with life carrying on by the concrete-filled pond.

[abi]

Jun 26, 2017 18:42:12 GMT Charlie Allison said:

So, aside from that, here are my concerns:

-Monica's characterization--she's meant to be a pair of eyes observing Antoine/Ahpuchtzin (Ah Puch comes up as a Maya deathgod in some early 20th century writings on Mayan deathgods of Xibalba--but there is nothing to substantiate this name--the closest is Ah Pukul, who abused the primordial Bacab spirits but I digressah, fuck it, thug lyfe--and 'tzin' is a Mexica suffix which means, roughly 'lord'. Think the Japanese 'sama' suffix and you're about there.) But she's also meant to provide context for what's happening to him, showing him attempting to disrupt Ahpuchtzin and then succumbing to his influence. I'm afraid she's a guest in her own story.
-Antoine. Is he offensive--i meant to make him a biology nerd, a bit of a mechanistic, deterministic character who believes that all we can't see simply isn't worth dealing with. If it's not biological, it's bunkum, which makes his fate ironic--he is doomed by what he cannot see and cannot quantify.
-Is the sequence of events clear--I tried something new inspired by Justin and Julia's recent work and incorporated major time jumps in this story--do they help emphasize my points or boondoggle the audience?
-Ending--is there a way I can tie it together in a neater, more elegant way?

You guys are awesome and thanks in advance!

Charlie

Well, I really enjoyed the setting in this one, though I pretty much enjoy the setting in all of Charlie’s story. Still, maybe this setting was particularly close to me because of my having just lived that college stuff for the last five years. Yeah, I know how those students

“who weren’t by that point, as rumor had it, strictly human,”

 feel. That’s grad school for ya. But anyway, let’s move on to the nitty gritty. Charlie told me to be harsh, so I’ll try, but it is what it is.

I think the first few pages are well-written, I like them, but the story doesn’t really start till page four anyway. The plot begins with the line,

“I didn’t raise an eyebrow when Antoine Thibault started flinching at the sound of our apartment’s faucet’s ceaseless dripping.”

Can that be moved to the beginning? There are a few scenes we still need, introducing the professors, the foreshadowing of him swimming, but other than that, I think it would be fine to start on page 4.

As it stands now, the plot goes: the introduction of Antoine, Monica explains what university life is like, and then examples of what university life is like, Antoine slowly goes crazy, big finale where Antoine murdered some professors and the building is exploded, and Monica has a revelation that dormlife is not for her and she should stay away from water. For this reason, I don’t think Charlie needs to worry about whom the story is really about. Monica’s narration and her revelation at the end keep her as a clear narrator even though the story is mostly about Antoine’s digression into madness. However, there are some other things that I think are important to this story that aren’t there.

    • For one, we never get a description of Antoine. Does he have multiple mouths? This is mentioned at the end, but nowhere in the beginning. That’s something I think the reader needs to know up front.
    
• Also, the picture that get’s stolen? I didn’t quite understand the significance of that. Are we missing a description of it earlier in the story? Or maybe I just passed over it without knowing, but I don’t think I really understood the significance of the picture or what it had to do with him and the pond? And I apologize, it’s probably just me being dumb, but can someone explain it to me?

    • On page 7, we get the line, “Antoine vanished for weeks on end after that, presumably heartbroken at the lack of vindication.” This is after he steals the pic. I think we need to know why he vanishes. Did Monica accuse him of stealing it? Did she tell him or the school? Why does he vanish? I think we need to know the state of their relationship to have more sympathy for what Monica is going through, if that makes sense. I think we’re missing some of Monica’s interest in Antoine, which might be romantic? I’d like to hear what everyone else thinks about this.

    • And last thing, I thought Monica is in the building that get’s exploded at the end. So, I’m wondering how she made it out alive? Or maybe she was terribly injured. Either way, it’s kind of explained really quickly before the story ends, and I think maybe it feels a bit rushed.

    Anyway, I apologize to Charlie if this is all too picky. But you did say to be brutal. And this is all I can manage. I really liked the rest of the story. The university is insane but so very interesting at the same time. I love Monica, who is kind of stoic about the whole thing but still has a sense of humor about it. After the scene where she sees the murdered professors, and I can picture her saying something like, “their lectures weren’t that bad.” Also, I loved Antoine’s mad ramblings (or are they true??) and there were several sentences that I really loved which I mentioned in my line notes. So, I think this story is going places. It’s nearly there.

APs Line Notes Miskatonic story.pdf (276.34 KB)

[justin1023]

Jun 28, 2017 18:38:36 GMT abi said:

And last thing, I thought Monica is in the building that get’s exploded at the end. So, I’m wondering how she made it out alive? Or maybe she was terribly injured. Either way, it’s kind of explained really quickly before the story ends, and I think maybe it feels a bit rushed.

I commented on this in my line notes as well. I think Charlie was going for her arriving back at campus to find all this action going on. But it was not clear to me. I definitely thought she was in the dorm room. But then, she was just a few feet away from Antoine at one point. So a little clarity will be needed there.

[abi]

Jun 27, 2017 14:09:12 GMT justin1023 said:

Jun 26, 2017 18:42:12 GMT Charlie Allison said:

Mentlegen!
I'm in the odd (and second) position of writing a story for a contest. Thanks to your help on Tindalos, I'm sure I'll get my foot in the door from last time but I digress. I'm entering my story in THIS contest:
www.brokeneyebooks.com/submissions.html
(Miskatonic in the present day--more lovecraft stuff, and paying a whopping 8c a word).

So here is where I fall down. I have a rough draft attached--and I know, tonally, its all over the place. I'm not sure what I should go for, so what I want to know from you is which of the tones I hit is the strongest that would serve the piece best in a macro-sense. I almost wanted to make this a pulpy story with a mystery angle, then I got distracted (as I do) and leaned harder on commentary than I meant to and overcorrected into mildly black comedy.
I do know that I need to bring out the character of the university as a place a bit more: like, what can people expect from this interpretation of the university in the 20th Century--it's what the anthology is asking for. Any ideas on how to make this feel less like 'murder-hogwarts' and more like something lovecraftian?

So, aside from that, here are my concerns:


-Monica's characterization--she's meant to be a pair of eyes observing Antoine/Ahpuchtzin (Ah Puch comes up as a Maya deathgod in some early 20th century writings on Mayan deathgods of Xibalba--but there is nothing to substantiate this name--the closest is Ah Pukul, who abused the primordial Bacab spirits but I digressah, fuck it, thug lyfe--and 'tzin' is a Mexica suffix which means, roughly 'lord'. Think the Japanese 'sama' suffix and you're about there.) But she's also meant to provide context for what's happening to him, showing him attempting to disrupt Ahpuchtzin and then succumbing to his influence. I'm afraid she's a guest in her own story.
-Antoine. Is he offensive--i meant to make him a biology nerd, a bit of a mechanistic, deterministic character who believes that all we can't see simply isn't worth dealing with. If it's not biological, it's bunkum, which makes his fate ironic--he is doomed by what he cannot see and cannot quantify.
-Is the sequence of events clear--I tried something new inspired by Justin and Julia's recent work and incorporated major time jumps in this story--do they help emphasize my points or boondoggle the audience?
-Ending--is there a way I can tie it together in a neater, more elegant way?

You guys are awesome and thanks in advance!

Charlie

Charlie's story is missing everything besides the "vital research" and "gruesome and psychedelic cosmic weirdness." So, make Antoine and Monica fuck buddies. How weird does that make the relationship when Antoine starts going crazy? (or starts succumbing to the god, to be more accurate). Give Monica agency in all this. She is studying linguistics. I think Charlie tried to incorporate that towards the end, but how can Monica use her own studies to help identify the changes in Antoine sooner. Wouldn't it be interesting to see Monica recognize what was happening and use that as an excuse to distance herself from her fuck buddy? And what if that didn't work? What if Antoine needed to hook up with her because she was the only thing tethering him to the world he'd once known? She can't escape him without doing something drastic. So, Monica hooks up with Professor Spates as a way of pushing Antoine away. Well, since Monica only thought of herself (getting out of the relationship), and because she didn't try to stop Antoine from doing what he was doing, even though she was starting to recognize it, she gets two professors killed, including Spates (whom Antoine kills in his last bit of humanity before succumbing to the god), and she allows the entire destructive process to complete. All because she was more concerned about herself than the good of the university. 

I'm beginning to write Charlie's story for him, and I don't want to do that, but hopefully that illustrates what I mean by Monica needing agency. 

Noooooo, I don't want this to be a story about their sex lifeeeee, please no!! But I know what you mean, Justin, about the fact that their relationship doesn't come out much in this story. I think that should be brought out more. I'd argue that it's already there in places, if she's watching his naked-swimming-at-night, she's probably interested. But I do think he relationship with Antoine needs to be explained a little more.

For instance, when she first sees him standing there in his raincoat when it's not raining, she doesn't say or do anything to try and help him. Why? It seems a bit callous on her part. Is she not that close to him? Does she just admire him from far off and hope for something more? Or does she have some other reason for not even trying to help. And I mean, she goes as far as locking her door that night. They must have had a falling out before now, why else would she do that? I think there are some things missing here. 

[abi]

Jun 28, 2017 18:47:32 GMT justin1023 said:

Jun 28, 2017 18:38:36 GMT abi said:

And last thing, I thought Monica is in the building that get’s exploded at the end. So, I’m wondering how she made it out alive? Or maybe she was terribly injured. Either way, it’s kind of explained really quickly before the story ends, and I think maybe it feels a bit rushed.

I commented on this in my line notes as well. I think Charlie was going for her arriving back at campus to find all this action going on. But it was not clear to me. I definitely thought she was in the dorm room. But then, she was just a few feet away from Antoine at one point. So a little clarity will be needed there.

Ohhh! Well, that makes much more sense. I guess I missed that. 

[justin1023]

Jun 28, 2017 18:51:17 GMT abi said:

Noooooo, I don't want this to be a story about their sex lifeeeee, please no!! But I know what you mean, Justin, about the fact that their relationship doesn't come out much in this story. I think that should be brought out more. I'd argue that it's already there in places, if she's watching his naked-swimming-at-night, she's probably interested. But I do think he relationship with Antoine needs to be explained a little more.

For instance, when she first sees him standing there in his raincoat when it's not raining, she doesn't say or do anything to try and help him. Why? It seems a bit callous on her part. Is she not that close to him? Does she just admire him from far off and hope for something more? Or does she have some other reason for not even trying to help. And I mean, she goes as far as locking her door that night. They must have had a falling out before now, why else would she do that? I think there are some things missing here. 

Well of course it doesn't have to be about their sex life. I used that as an example of giving Monica agency in the story while also helping pull together a more fully formed plot. And, sex in college as a theme is right in line with what the competition is looking for. But it absolutely doesn't have to be about their sex life. I just don't think this is a story unless Monica has agency or we suddenly get a completely different story told from Antoine's perspective. 

[abi]

Jun 28, 2017 20:42:23 GMT justin1023 said:

Jun 28, 2017 18:51:17 GMT abi said:

Noooooo, I don't want this to be a story about their sex lifeeeee, please no!! But I know what you mean, Justin, about the fact that their relationship doesn't come out much in this story. I think that should be brought out more. I'd argue that it's already there in places, if she's watching his naked-swimming-at-night, she's probably interested. But I do think he relationship with Antoine needs to be explained a little more.

For instance, when she first sees him standing there in his raincoat when it's not raining, she doesn't say or do anything to try and help him. Why? It seems a bit callous on her part. Is she not that close to him? Does she just admire him from far off and hope for something more? Or does she have some other reason for not even trying to help. And I mean, she goes as far as locking her door that night. They must have had a falling out before now, why else would she do that? I think there are some things missing here. 

Well of course it doesn't have to be about their sex life. I used that as an example of giving Monica agency in the story while also helping pull together a more fully formed plot. And, sex in college as a theme is right in line with what the competition is looking for. But it absolutely doesn't have to be about their sex life. I just don't think this is a story unless Monica has agency or we suddenly get a completely different story told from Antoine's perspective. 

You're saying that you don't think she has enough agency as the story stands now? Well, I can kinda see that, the story isn't really about her, though it is about her reactions to what is going on around her. She's not completely trapped, she is going about her buisness with school and whatnot. We don't really get any scenes with of that, but the story doesn't really have much to the mundanities of college classes. 

[justin1023]

Jun 29, 2017 13:26:05 GMT abi said:

You're saying that you don't think she has enough agency as the story stands now? Well, I can kinda see that, the story isn't really about her, though it is about her reactions to what is going on around her. She's not completely trapped, she is going about her buisness with school and whatnot. We don't really get any scenes with of that, but the story doesn't really have much to the mundanities of college classes. 

Yeah, I'm saying she has ZERO agency as the story stands now, which means there is no protagonist or antagonist in this story. Without that we have: 

1) A guy who studies zoology
2) A woman who studies linguistics
3) A slow possession of the guy by a god

We're then missing: 

1) Why do we care about the guy?
2) Why do we care about the woman?
3) Why do we care about the specific god possessing the guy? 

We all know the three basic elements to a story is character, plot, setting. The story as it is told now is missing much of the character aspect, and I argue that impact the plot. But I think it's good for Charlie if others disagree to say so. Bring it on, Abi!