abi
New Member
Posts: 29 
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Post by abi on Jul 18, 2017 3:55:23 GMT
This is a story that I've struggled with for a very long time. I've written many different versions of it, one of which was in my application to the MFA program. I have since rewritten it several more times and am still not happy with the result. The story is part ghost story, part seafaring adventure, part fish story. The trouble is, I wanted the story to sound like the mad ramblings of an old fisherman from the 1900's or earlier. But in constructing the story this way, I think I may have made it too confusing. Here are my questions: Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right? Did you understand the significance of the girl they fish out of the sea and is that stuff clear? She's not really the Captain's betrothed, nor is she Tobias' Kathy, but both men project whatever they want onto her. Do all of the biblical ramblings help you understand the unraveled nature of Tobias' mind or are they just confusing? Thanks, guys! The Girl Who was Kathy.pdf (94.27 KB) |
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Post by Charlie Allison on Jul 18, 2017 19:43:04 GMT
This is a story that I've struggled with for a very long time. I've written many different versions of it, one of which was in my application to the MFA program. I have since rewritten it several more times and am still not happy with the result. The story is part ghost story, part seafaring adventure, part fish story. The trouble is, I wanted the story to sound like the mad ramblings of an old fisherman from the 1900's or earlier. But in constructing the story this way, I think I may have made it too confusing. Here are my questions: Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right? Did you understand the significance of the girl they fish out of the sea and is that stuff clear? She's not really the Captain's betrothed, nor is she Tobias' Kathy, but both men project whatever they want onto her. Do all of the biblical ramblings help you understand the unraveled nature of Tobias' mind or are they just confusing? Thanks, guys! View AttachmentGood: -Its clear that everyone in a position of power is utterly crazypants. Tobias hopped the 'sane-fence' some time ago, evidently, but the Captain is just nuts. You make this clear through several obvious errors of judgment and the incessant use of religious language and imagery helps place this story in the 1750's onward. I in particular loved these quotes: -Beautiful individual sentences (See below and my line notes). You capture the rhythm and dirge-like quality of being stuck on a boat with a pair of maniacs, with a broken sail and religious delusions quite well. - The narrator is an ornament, a view into a world that is constantly on the verge of ending. While we don't care about him necessarily as a person, we are as readers entertained by his madness and the fact that not only is he crazy, but he is somehow LESS insane than the homicidal captain and everything we see of the events of the story through. We know we are seeing through the eyes of madness, but keep going because its just so goddamn interesting. Things I have questions about: - The broken mast. that's a serious bit of damage--like, the ship is at risk of being at the mercy of tides and has lost a huge amount of agency if lightning struck the mast. Its showy and dramatic but I can't believe that the crew would look on, lamb-like, at the loss of one of their major means of getting off the USS CRAZY-LOON. I mean, they aren't passive, but they seem less concerned than they otherwise would be--like you or me if the power went out in our homes, before the backup generators kicked in. Perhaps if you clarified the make of ship ( www.sailboat-cruising.com/types-of-sailboats.html) and made it clear that there were multiple sails, this would explain how the golden-lettered ship made it home, even with a catastrophic loss. The link I have posted is to modern sailboats, but the terms or more or less accurate to the time period you want. - Title. I think the title is serviceable at the moment, but to be truly great, it might need some modification. I'm a huge fan of the title being 'THUMBNAIL DISTANCE' since it shows up at the beginning and the end allows you to present a unified whole. It's used as a reinforcement device about just how OFF the captain is that he can't be bothered to make precise measurements, and is a unique enough phrase to be memorable. Further more, I think that the title makes more sense with your theme--which isn't really on Kathy or the mysterious women. The story is about madness, mania and religious obsession--the women and the nets are just vectors for the madness, not the source. By re-labelling the story, you allow, I think, your central themes to be more clearly seperated from the causes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailors%27_superstitions#JonahThis looks like a belief or folk-legend worth looking into since bad luck and ill-fortune, masked as gods displeasure, play key roles in this story. I have more to say, but I'm curious to hear others opinions--and want to practice my quick-post abilities. Charlies Edits to Abis work.pdf (86.6 KB) |
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Post by justin1023 on Jul 19, 2017 13:03:20 GMT
This is a story that I've struggled with for a very long time. I've written many different versions of it, one of which was in my application to the MFA program. I have since rewritten it several more times and am still not happy with the result. The story is part ghost story, part seafaring adventure, part fish story. The trouble is, I wanted the story to sound like the mad ramblings of an old fisherman from the 1900's or earlier. But in constructing the story this way, I think I may have made it too confusing. Here are my questions: Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right? Did you understand the significance of the girl they fish out of the sea and is that stuff clear? She's not really the Captain's betrothed, nor is she Tobias' Kathy, but both men project whatever they want onto her. Do all of the biblical ramblings help you understand the unraveled nature of Tobias' mind or are they just confusing? Thanks, guys! Oh my goodness, Abi! I love this. Love love love this. Yes, I know, that's not helpful feedback, ego aside. But I want to start with everything that works so well in this story. Telling it from Tobias's perspective was the absolute right decision. I considered what this story would look like from the Captain's perspective, and it becomes something entirely different. Here's why: Tobias strikes us as sane, a man who wants to return home eventually even though he is condemned to a ship captained by a crazy man on the run. This allows Tobias's discovery of the girl and his quick slip into a ghostly insanity to be all the more impactful. So well done. The pacing is perfect. The dialogue is wonderful. The feeling of the story is spot on. So, let me address your main concerns: Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right? Perfectly, in my opinion. It's set up as an adventure story—Captain on the run from a jealousy-fueled murder. But it spins into a disaster story, then spins further into a ghost story. But more than a ghost story, it examines the frail mental state of both the captain and his first mate. It all fits like a puzzle. Did you understand the significance of the girl they fish out of the sea and is that stuff clear? She's not really the Captain's betrothed, nor is she Tobias' Kathy, but both men project whatever they want onto her.
Yes, 100% understood that. That's why I say it's not really a ghost story, but a story about the insanity caused (or influenced) by time at sea. I will say the one thing that tripped me up was whether they were projecting life onto the woman. Did she come back to life for a moment? Or was that imagined? Do all of the biblical ramblings help you understand the unraveled nature of Tobias' mind or are they just confusing?They help so much. It adds authenticity to the time period and to the character. They actually—probably intentionally so—correspond neatly with the deterioration of his mental state. He recited the psalm as his mind starts to break, and we get more as he discovers the girl. It's well balanced and a nice addition to the story. I honestly wish I had more to critique on this story, but I love it so much. It's unlike anything I've read from you, but it's wonderful. I think it is one of those unique stories that will require you to find the right type of journal, but this is pretty darn close to ready to go out on submission. Great job, Abi! |
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Post by justin1023 on Jul 19, 2017 13:08:08 GMT
This is a story that I've struggled with for a very long time. I've written many different versions of it, one of which was in my application to the MFA program. I have since rewritten it several more times and am still not happy with the result. The story is part ghost story, part seafaring adventure, part fish story. The trouble is, I wanted the story to sound like the mad ramblings of an old fisherman from the 1900's or earlier. But in constructing the story this way, I think I may have made it too confusing. Here are my questions: Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right? Did you understand the significance of the girl they fish out of the sea and is that stuff clear? She's not really the Captain's betrothed, nor is she Tobias' Kathy, but both men project whatever they want onto her. Do all of the biblical ramblings help you understand the unraveled nature of Tobias' mind or are they just confusing? Thanks, guys! Good: -Its clear that everyone in a position of power is utterly crazypants. Tobias hopped the 'sane-fence' some time ago, evidently, but the Captain is just nuts. You make this clear through several obvious errors of judgment and the incessant use of religious language and imagery helps place this story in the 1750's onward. I in particular loved these quotes: -Beautiful individual sentences (See below and my line notes). You capture the rhythm and dirge-like quality of being stuck on a boat with a pair of maniacs, with a broken sail and religious delusions quite well. - The narrator is an ornament, a view into a world that is constantly on the verge of ending. While we don't care about him necessarily as a person, we are as readers entertained by his madness and the fact that not only is he crazy, but he is somehow LESS insane than the homicidal captain and everything we see of the events of the story through. We know we are seeing through the eyes of madness, but keep going because its just so goddamn interesting. Things I have questions about: - The broken mast. that's a serious bit of damage--like, the ship is at risk of being at the mercy of tides and has lost a huge amount of agency if lightning struck the mast. Its showy and dramatic but I can't believe that the crew would look on, lamb-like, at the loss of one of their major means of getting off the USS CRAZY-LOON. I mean, they aren't passive, but they seem less concerned than they otherwise would be--like you or me if the power went out in our homes, before the backup generators kicked in. Perhaps if you clarified the make of ship ( www.sailboat-cruising.com/types-of-sailboats.html) and made it clear that there were multiple sails, this would explain how the golden-lettered ship made it home, even with a catastrophic loss. The link I have posted is to modern sailboats, but the terms or more or less accurate to the time period you want. - Title. I think the title is serviceable at the moment, but to be truly great, it might need some modification. I'm a huge fan of the title being 'THUMBNAIL DISTANCE' since it shows up at the beginning and the end allows you to present a unified whole. It's used as a reinforcement device about just how OFF the captain is that he can't be bothered to make precise measurements, and is a unique enough phrase to be memorable. Further more, I think that the title makes more sense with your theme--which isn't really on Kathy or the mysterious women. The story is about madness, mania and religious obsession--the women and the nets are just vectors for the madness, not the source. By re-labelling the story, you allow, I think, your central themes to be more clearly seperated from the causes. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailors%27_superstitions#JonahThis looks like a belief or folk-legend worth looking into since bad luck and ill-fortune, masked as gods displeasure, play key roles in this story. I have more to say, but I'm curious to hear others opinions--and want to practice my quick-post abilities. I hadn't considered the broken mast an issue, but as Charlie points out, it could use some clarification. I had just assumed they were fucked. But by the end, through Tobias's own interpretation of divine intervention, they are expected to make it. If that's the case, they need a working sail, right? Charlie's suggestion of having multiple sails seems like an easy fix. But the harder fix, I think, will be conveying panic from a crew that is, by design, mute. I'm not sure much more needs to be added, but that's the trick. It has to be just enough to make the situation feel dire, but not too much so as to pull the reader away from the real story. And yes, on the title. Yes yes yes. Make it Thumbnail Distance. |
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Julia
New Member
Posts: 38
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Post by Julia on Jul 24, 2017 17:56:44 GMT
Sorry I’m late! So behind on everything. Great story!
Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right?
I love the moodiness of the story. The threat of the storm looms over them in the future, and their lost loves haunt them. They go out trying to escape the past and run right into a symbolic representation of them.
The events of the last few pages happened so quickly in succession. I think it might work better if you spread the action over a longer time period, like a couple of days so that tension between the Captain and Tobias has time to build. The girl died so quickly that I didn’t feel anything when she did. Likewise, when Tobias tries to jump overboard but the Captain does instead, I didn’t really know what to feel.
Did you understand the significance of the girl they fish out of the sea and is that stuff clear? She's not really the Captain's betrothed, nor is she Tobias' Kathy, but both men project whatever they want onto her.
Yes, I thought it was clear she wasn’t either woman. Actually I think you could cut the part about the women’s different hair colors because it felt a little like those details were only there so the reader would be absolutely sure.
Do all of the biblical ramblings help you understand the unraveled nature of Tobias' mind or are they just confusing?
Tobias has such a poetical, roundabout way of putting things: “perhaps it was one of those strange porpoise creatures that flashed gold in the sunlight and swam by the boat in calmer waters.” I liked the repetition of “thumbnail distance” like some sort of religious mantra.
I found the moment when they find the girl a little hard to follow. I would have liked more grounding in the physical details. How did the captain manage to lift him up and over the rail? The crew seemed rather large so I thought it was some huge Moby Dick type vessel. But I guess it’s something smaller? I was also confused about they lifted him back on board.
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Post by Charlie Allison on Jul 25, 2017 17:04:35 GMT
Sorry I’m late! So behind on everything. Great story! Did all of the elements of this story fit together all right?
I love the moodiness of the story. The threat of the storm looms over them in the future, and their lost loves haunt them. They go out trying to escape the past and run right into a symbolic representation of them. The events of the last few pages happened so quickly in succession. I think it might work better if you spread the action over a longer time period, like a couple of days so that tension between the Captain and Tobias has time to build. The girl died so quickly that I didn’t feel anything when she did. Likewise, when Tobias tries to jump overboard but the Captain does instead, I didn’t really know what to feel. I found the moment when they find the girl a little hard to follow. I would have liked more grounding in the physical details. How did the captain manage to lift him up and over the rail? The crew seemed rather large so I thought it was some huge Moby Dick type vessel. But I guess it’s something smaller? I was also confused about they lifted him back on board. Julia makes a great point about timing. To get the weird, eerie, waterlogged feeling of suspense that I think Abi is going for here, timing is critical. If it was spaced out over several evenings, we get more chances to wonder at the detachment and insanity in the crew. It gives more credit and tension to the voiceless crew--rather than boiling it down to one stormy evening. Granted, fishing the woman out of the water should be on the final evening, coupled with the lightning strike--but if there is a way to space everything before the point so that it comes to a head on a fateful evening--it would lend to your sense of atmosphere tremendously. There is a tension that comes with unspeaking characters, I think--perhaps have a standoff between Captain and crew that the first mate has to diffuse--and imply this isn't the first time this sort of thing has happened. |
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