Once, We Were There Ch3 & 4

[justin1023]

Hey guys, 

Here are the next two chapters of my new novel. Now that you've gotten a taste of both Nate's and Joe's POVs, I'm interested in how the continued switching flows for you. I'm also interested in how Nate feels as a character. I know Abi thought Joe was a bit sharper, but I'm hoping they gain equal footing as the novel goes along. 

Thanks!

Attachments:

Once We Were There Ch3_4.pdf (137.17 KB)

[Charlie Allison]

Justin!

I get a really good sense of place, tone and activity in your opening lines.


Chapter 3:

It wasn’t Mateo who shoved me up against the lockers then dragged me into the men’s room at school. It was my one of my oldest friends. It was also my supplier. Bobby Craig.

I love the use of negatives in the first three sentences of this chapter, followed by a positive. This does SO much work--it implies Nate has a long list of people who have (or would like to) slam him up against the lockers and into the mens room. It creates immediate context and an idea of what Nate is like without having to go into flashbacks of spoken exposition--it places us immediately in the moment and gives us a clue about how Nate's life is on a day-to-day-basis.

I felt that surge that split across my temple, ran past my forehead, down my neck, and settled in my chest. But I breathed it away. “You want your money, and I get it for you. So back the fuck off or take the weed back.”

We also get potent reminders that Nate, even in the (relatively) low stress position at the beginning of the novel, is not necessarily healthy or normal person. He has a hair-trigger temper and something close to 'redding out' berserker like tendencies--things that help draw the plot onwards and get him and his into plenty of trouble. We need these reminders through the chapter because if we assume that Nate is a normal person, this story could never have happened. This is a light touch, but an essential reminder.

I couldn’t understand leaving Nakisha. When my mom finally snapped, breaking my jaw and stabbing my dad in the shoulder, she jumped a Greyhound for Flagstaff. I hadn’t seen her since, but I always wondered what it might be like living somewhere like that—somewhere where the heat didn’t promise to dry you out and leave your bones in a pile on the desert floor

.
I'm a huge fan of the juxtaposition between Nate's mother and bones at the end--there is an implicit sense of comparison between Nate's insane mother and the elements--both are implacable, unpredictable, and can kill you if you aren't paying attention. For a character that never shows up except in flashbacks, this is a fantastic comparison of how Nate sees his mother--and I'm curious about how Joe sees his now ex-wife--does he see her as elemental? Does he miss the woman she was when they were newlyweds or dating--or does he stomp down on these thoughts as not productive? I admit this is more of a novel-wide question fed by curiousity--it might slow down the story you're trying to tell--but the contrast between Nate and Joe's POV is wide enough that I'd love to read about their contrasting views of Nate's mother. ANYWAY.

I was about to put my phone away, when I thought of Sonya. She didn’t really like Mateo. She was with him because she wouldn’t be with me. For that alone, I shouldn’t have broken his nose.

Again, a reminder that Nate isn't normal. It's fascinating to read this and watch his character develop through the novel--he starts out so convinced that violence and action will solve problems, only to, if not mellow, at least calculate before plunging into the fray. This touchiness, shared with his father, slowly fades and he learns to delegate, empathize and not be so Manichean in his worldview--but not in these early chapters, obviously. That's why I love the story and pacing here--we have to have Nate be a bit of a hot-blooded person in order to appreciate the changes later in the story.

In the meta-sense, chapter three is grammatically spotless. Everything is addressed or foreshadowed well. Bobby is introduced, Matteo is referenced and Nate goes through in what many ways must be a typical-ish day for him. Great Job, man.

Chapter 4:

Christine had spiraled in the final months, but Joe couldn’t get her to see anyone. He could have—should have—had her forcibly committed. At the very least, it would have prompted action. They would have either found nothing and Joe wouldn’t have an excuse to allow her shitty behavior, or they’d confirm what he and Nathan had been suspecting.

And so much of my questions are answered--but teased as well in these sentences. Joe feeling regret is key to keeping him in the rut he's in--while under the illusion that he's doing what he has to do to preserve his family. Guilt too, that's in there. Benny, must at some level, be able to play on this along with the threat of exposure/removal to thoroughly manipulate Joe--although, Joe is already doing most of the hard work for Benny. This chapter explores his motivations and origins of him going crooked as a cop--I like that decision from a narrative standpoint. I wonder if it's needed, a little mystery that we can wonder about as the novel progresses, but Benny is so goddamn fun to read about that I think this chapter works as is.

“I am worrying about me, and I know you’ll do the right thing. Just tell Nathan he can no longer push Broderick’s weed. He’s welcome to come see me if he is looking for alternative employment, though.”

I've mentioned this before, but I love how you write Benny as never using contractions and speaking formally. It contrasts him with the other characters--and makes him seem alien and terrifying, in a refined sort of way. We get a sense of his reach and depth of information. We've had tertiary contact with this character, but this is the first time we understand how long his arms are--knowing about Nate being sounded out by Bobby is terrifying in and of itself. This is the chapter where Benny goes from 'a voice' to 'a credible threat' and its done subtly, without trumpeting or bullets.

You have a knack for compressed, accurate and punchy sentences that summarize scenes in clever ways. One of my favorite ones is below, summarizing a scene some years before the novel proper:

The moment that card went in Joe’s pocket, Joe went into Benny’s pocket.

Great work, man--I'll send you the line notes with the rest of the novel, sooner rather than later!

Charlie

[Julia]

Aug 28, 2017 13:42:22 GMT justin1023 said:

Hey guys, 

Here are the next two chapters of my new novel. Now that you've gotten a taste of both Nate's and Joe's POVs, I'm interested in how the continued switching flows for you. I'm also interested in how Nate feels as a character. I know Abi thought Joe was a bit sharper, but I'm hoping they gain equal footing as the novel goes along. 

Sorry this is so late it might not even be useful anymore!

These chapters do a great job of raising the stakes and providing more background on Joe and Nate without it feeling exposition heavy. We saw Nate was into drugs in his last chapter, but now we see him in conflict with his supplier. With Bobby's grandfather, we see how deeply entrenched drugs are in this community. Nate's mother's dialogue is so horrific. "Well, maybe you’re the fuck-up. Maybe you’re the one who can’t handle moving on.” I can see why Nate is so messed up, but I also did feel bad that Christine was mentally ill.

Joe continues to intrigue me. How did he go from pulling Benny over to working for him? It will keep me reading. The writing is so clean and contained but also emotional: "Joe didn’t know whether to hug the boy or slap him across his face. He knew where Nate was getting the money, but as he flipped open the envelope and counted the bills, he didn’t care."

I wish we had learned a bit more about Sonya, some little detail that shows why Nate likes her. Is she artistic? Does she draw pictures on her Doc Martins with whiteout? Is she athletic? Did she win the state championship with a broken arm? Hardworking? Pulling double shifts at MacDonalds? Something that feels teenager-y and specific. It will help me get more excited when Nate gets the call from her.

[Charlie Allison]

Oct 6, 2017 18:33:48 GMT Julia said:

Aug 28, 2017 13:42:22 GMT justin1023 said:

Hey guys, 

Here are the next two chapters of my new novel. Now that you've gotten a taste of both Nate's and Joe's POVs, I'm interested in how the continued switching flows for you. I'm also interested in how Nate feels as a character. I know Abi thought Joe was a bit sharper, but I'm hoping they gain equal footing as the novel goes along. 

Sorry this is so late it might not even be useful anymore!

These chapters do a great job of raising the stakes and providing more background on Joe and Nate without it feeling exposition heavy. We saw Nate was into drugs in his last chapter, but now we see him in conflict with his supplier. With Bobby's grandfather, we see how deeply entrenched drugs are in this community. Nate's mother's dialogue is so horrific. "Well, maybe you’re the fuck-up. Maybe you’re the one who can’t handle moving on.” I can see why Nate is so messed up, but I also did feel bad that Christine was mentally ill.

Joe continues to intrigue me. How did he go from pulling Benny over to working for him? It will keep me reading. The writing is so clean and contained but also emotional: "Joe didn’t know whether to hug the boy or slap him across his face. He knew where Nate was getting the money, but as he flipped open the envelope and counted the bills, he didn’t care."

I wish we had learned a bit more about Sonya, some little detail that shows why Nate likes her. Is she artistic? Does she draw pictures on her Doc Martins with whiteout? Is she athletic? Did she win the state championship with a broken arm? Hardworking? Pulling double shifts at MacDonalds? Something that feels teenager-y and specific. It will help me get more excited when Nate gets the call from her.

Julia,

I share your concerns, and I've read the whole manuscript. Sonya's arc (and reasons the Nate like her) shift with his priorities. At first I believed it was simply a 'because you are involved with someone, I desire you because you are unattainable and therefor safe to feel for' type deal. Teenager-logic, petty social climbing through denial of resources an status through spit and backstabbing. But as the story goes on, it starts to come out a bit more I think--my fan theory is that she and Nate have always been friends--its hinted she knows more about him than more or less anyone else in his age-group--as demonstrated by her understanding of his temper and his associating it with his mother. That sort of intimacy, a friendship, seems to bloom into more of a 'I want you because you understand me/I trust you with my fears' type deal. I'm not sure if my shooting my mouth off here is helpful, but I kinda always read their relationship as a childhood friendship, that with some bumps and shared trauma hiccuped into (partly by necessity and circumstance) romance and an alliance in desperate straits.
What do you think? Is there a way that Justin could help bring this more to the fore?

[princessdiana92]

Aug 28, 2017 13:42:22 GMT justin1023 said:

Hey guys, 

Here are the next two chapters of my new novel. Now that you've gotten a taste of both Nate's and Joe's POVs, I'm interested in how the continued switching flows for you. I'm also interested in how Nate feels as a character. I know Abi thought Joe was a bit sharper, but I'm hoping they gain equal footing as the novel goes along. 

Thanks!

Hey Justin,

Really loving where this novel is going. Joe has quite the temper but I think that has a lot to do with his past and what he's been through. You can easily see that he's barely holding himself together and trying to keep their house running with the bills, etc. and he can't seem to do that without being a bit of a dirty cop and relying a little on Nate's one dirty dealings. I'm hooked!!

Great work on creating these characters. They're so real and 3-dimensional. They have their own concerns and I love seeing how Nate is being pressured at the same time as his dad is. Ch. 4 leaves off on quite a cliffhanger and I'm anxious to see what ends up happening (there's a sense of foreboding here... I don't exactly think that Nate is going to stop selling weed so easily, no matter what Joe tells him, but if Benny is getting involved and warning Joe, that's a good sign that shit is about to hit the fan -- you do such a great job of setting up that tension here). 

Please submit more! Really anticipating seeing what ends up happening here. I didn't have any criticisms for these chapters. They're compelling and action-packed and move the story along well.  

Thanks for sharing!
~ T

[princessdiana92]

Oct 8, 2017 23:44:41 GMT Charlie Allison said:

Oct 6, 2017 18:33:48 GMT Julia said:

Sorry this is so late it might not even be useful anymore!

These chapters do a great job of raising the stakes and providing more background on Joe and Nate without it feeling exposition heavy. We saw Nate was into drugs in his last chapter, but now we see him in conflict with his supplier. With Bobby's grandfather, we see how deeply entrenched drugs are in this community. Nate's mother's dialogue is so horrific. "Well, maybe you’re the fuck-up. Maybe you’re the one who can’t handle moving on.” I can see why Nate is so messed up, but I also did feel bad that Christine was mentally ill.

Joe continues to intrigue me. How did he go from pulling Benny over to working for him? It will keep me reading. The writing is so clean and contained but also emotional: "Joe didn’t know whether to hug the boy or slap him across his face. He knew where Nate was getting the money, but as he flipped open the envelope and counted the bills, he didn’t care."

I wish we had learned a bit more about Sonya, some little detail that shows why Nate likes her. Is she artistic? Does she draw pictures on her Doc Martins with whiteout? Is she athletic? Did she win the state championship with a broken arm? Hardworking? Pulling double shifts at MacDonalds? Something that feels teenager-y and specific. It will help me get more excited when Nate gets the call from her.

Julia,

I share your concerns, and I've read the whole manuscript. Sonya's arc (and reasons the Nate like her) shift with his priorities. At first I believed it was simply a 'because you are involved with someone, I desire you because you are unattainable and therefor safe to feel for' type deal. Teenager-logic, petty social climbing through denial of resources an status through spit and backstabbing. But as the story goes on, it starts to come out a bit more I think--my fan theory is that she and Nate have always been friends--its hinted she knows more about him than more or less anyone else in his age-group--as demonstrated by her understanding of his temper and his associating it with his mother. That sort of intimacy, a friendship, seems to bloom into more of a 'I want you because you understand me/I trust you with my fears' type deal. I'm not sure if my shooting my mouth off here is helpful, but I kinda always read their relationship as a childhood friendship, that with some bumps and shared trauma hiccuped into (partly by necessity and circumstance) romance and an alliance in desperate straits.
What do you think? Is there a way that Justin could help bring this more to the fore?

I definitely have to agree with you both here. Out of all the strong characters that Justin has created so far, I think Sonya is the one who is most in the dark and I may have mentioned that since the beginning. she is like the unattainable fruit that he continues to climb the tree for. But I think there is a lot (like Charlie mentions) between Nate and Sonya. They obviously have a strong history together and I think Nate probably craves that female companionship, esp. after everything that happened with his mother. I'm sure after hearing Christine say those horrible things it would have stuck in his mind whether he wanted it to or not. But Nate still seems to believe he's better for Sonya than Mateo... so maybe there could be more of a holding back despite wanting to be with her? That's ultimately up to Justin what he really wants to get across here between the two of them but I think there is a lot of potential for exploring that, and also for making Sonya more three-dimensional herself. Like Julia said, what sets Sonya apart to Nate besides their longtime friendship? A scene of him watching her in her element (like Julia said, maybe she's artistic? maybe something more tough like she is practicing shooting a gun for some reason, who knows, I'm just throwing stuff out there)... some way that we can see a different side to Sonya and what really attracts Nate to her. I think it has to be deeper than their long-term connection and friendship. That will help the reader see what is so attractive about her too and what brings her back to Nate's mind again and again... I get the idea she was around after Nate's mom left but I think that can really be expanded upon (and maybe that's Justin's plan so ignore me if I'm just telling you things you already know)..

[justin1023]

Thanks so much, Tianna!